BMW USA Diesel Webcast

Amit Nov 11th, 2008 Link

They really need to build this in a manual. I’d be at the dealer in a flash putting down a deposit.

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Michael Nov 11th, 2008 Link

Where is AWD model?

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Tim Nov 11th, 2008 Link

“Likewise the X5 xDrive35d will also see the MSRP increase but to $51,200 (not including destination), a $4100 bump.”

what a shame, BMW has a unique opportunity here and they are only going to get a niche crowd with that price.

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Barry Nov 11th, 2008 Link

EXPENSIVE. Most BMW’s are leased too. Dont diesels take a good 40-60k to be fully broken in?

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Gabe Nov 11th, 2008 Link

what a shame, BMW has a unique opportunity here and they are only going to get a niche crowd with that price.

Not that I’m apologizing for the price point but BMW has traditionally (as does all manufacturers) priced diesels above the petrol counterparts. This is in-line with how these cars are priced throughout the world.

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Tim Nov 11th, 2008 Link

Not that I’m apologizing for the price point but BMW has traditionally (as does all manufacturers) priced diesels above the petrol counterparts. This is in-line with how these cars are priced throughout the world.

I expect it to be more, just not that much more. I’m not really interested in a Benz but the MSRP diff between a ML350 and a ML320 Bluetec is US$1500. Maybe there are other differences in the trim level where MB can make it look like a delta of only $1500, I’m sure someone will point it out if I’m not comparing apples to apples.

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Michael Nov 11th, 2008 Link

“This is in-line with how these cars are priced throughout the world.”

Not true if you are trying to enter market that never liked diesels. Besides, diesel fuel pricing is different in US compared to many other countries.

Less CO2? Appealing to green crowd with 335d and X5d (powerful sedan and large SUV) is not the right choice. 320d would be a better choice (sort of luxury alternative to Jetta TDI).

So I don’t get it – who is the target buyer? Or perhaps BMW NA actually wants this to program to fail so they can again confirm that America hates diesels?

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Michael Nov 11th, 2008 Link

Michael,

BMW opted to bring these versions over to show that diesel does not equate only with efficiency but also performance. This engine has also been tweaked for the US market, there are modifications that reduce noise and provide other comforts. The idea of these cars is to break the mold of what people think of when they think diesel.

Some of the other engines though more efficient would have needed significant modifications to address some market concerns that were discovered during early market research.

The fuel issue is not as big as most people would like to make it out to be, there has been a give and take with the diesel and gas prices over the last 7-10 years, supply will once again meet demand and diesel will become cheaper. There were external factors that increased the price and those have been removed (Bejing Olympics) and the use of diesel in almost every military vehicle on the face of the earth… which all should begin to subside. The new administration is rumored to push for a decrease in the tax on diesel (which currently is higher than gas) to promote more green diesel cars.

And yes appealing to the green crowd with a powerful sedan is a bit different but at the same time it makes sense; I am one for doing my part to reduce carbon emissions and driving a hybrid is not going to be something I am willing to do as I love to drive and hybrids are not there yet. So for me a diesel makes more sense as it takes less cracking during the refining process, can produce more diesel per barrel (though now the percentage is less b/c that is how the refiners are choosing/meet demand/ to separate a barrel), I get more MPG, release less emissions and have a hoot of a time driving.

The price point after the tax break is not that significant if you consider how much more technology the car requires, added components etc. I have run the numbers (it changes all the time) and it will take me around 3 years to hit the break even point, but in all honesty it is less about breaking even for me since that torque is worth an extra grand any day.

And yes diesels are more than gasoline engines in every world market.

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Barry Nov 11th, 2008 Link

No BMW manual can handle 425lb?? Wow. Fellas with M3’s better take it easy on the modification. God forbid you crank up the tq by 100ft.

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Gabe Nov 11th, 2008 Link

“This is in-line with how these cars are priced throughout the world.”

Not true if you are trying to enter market that never liked diesels. Besides, diesel fuel pricing is different in US compared to many other countries.

I’m lost with that comment. How is it not true if… it is inline with pricing elsewhere in the world? Beyond that of course I understand what you’re trying to say but BMW would never introduce something in the US in this economic climate that loses money.

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Michael Nov 12th, 2008 Link

Gabe, point is that BMW is entering US market which never liked diesels. Diesels have bad stigma in US. And effeciency-wise most buyers would associale good mileage with hybrid than diesel (and go to Toyota dealership). Prius (and soon Insight) are efficiency darlings. Therefore paricing like in Europe where like 60% of cars have diesel engine is not correct. Sometimes you may have to subsidize new product to gain market share.

I am not sure how large is “I want to drive fast and be green and I also like automatic transmissions” segment. Without AWD 335d sales in Northern states will be lower. X5 is not an alternative option.

Neither of the cars is of any interest to me (currently driving AWD 5er).

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Gabe Nov 12th, 2008 Link

I can agree with that sentiment. Unfortunately I think BMW NA is in a tight spot financially by trying to invest in bring these cars to the US while still needing to meet numbers. I agree it would have been ideal to price them a little lower to a market that has had reluctance towards diesels. However they seem to be positioning diesels in the US as a premium option for those who want more efficiency out of a BMW without giving up any performance. Again not ideal but that seems to be what they’re trying to do.

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Michael Nov 12th, 2008 Link

One of the possibility would be to bring less expensive variant first. Maybe 4 cyl diesel in 1 series (and bring a hatchback) to appeal to high-mileage crowd that also wants some luxury and better driving experience. There is currently no car in this segment (Jetta TDI maybe). I see a lot of A3 and A4 2.0T around, but very very few, 128.

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Michael Nov 12th, 2008 Link

The other issue is that the 335d engine was picked to get rid of the stigma, this engine is modified for the US in order to make it smoother, quieter and cleaner. The 4 cylinders would be rough and require even more mods. Also what else could be powered with that? The goal was a sedan and a SAV, the 35d is that and accepted the changes.

Goal 1: Break Stigma of diesel, change perception

Goal 2: Bring more efficient models…. they will come based on perception of the 35d models.

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Pete LSD Dec 12th, 2008 Link

When will BMW incorporate fourth-generation common-rail injectors into all its existing diesel engines?

Will we see injection pressure of 3,000 bar (43,511 psi) in a 335D?

Is there a way to maintain a flat torque curve after 2,500 rpm? All of the diesel engines’ torque curve drops off rapidly after 2,500 rpm. I understand that a spark device doesn’t work in a diesel engine.

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