I do not think that the argument that DCTs cannot handle high torque is exactly true. The way present DCTs are designed, the two clutches are concentric allowing for smaller dimensions of the gearbox. But this does put a limitation on the size (read friction surface area) of the individual clutches (Probably this can be remedied by increase in the number of plates or better frictional plate materials in future)

But look at the Mclaren MP4-12C gearbox. Excerpts from Richard Farquhar, McLaren Automotive’s Powertrain Managers launch material for the 12C- “Our Seamless Shift Gearbox (SSG) is a twin layshaft design with two small diameter wet clutches placed side by side, rather than concentrically”.

Mclaren did this to reduce the length of the gearbox to keep the rear overhang low. Does this give more space to mount higher capacity clutches? I do not know. what I do know is that the car costs $225,000 (fraction of the Veyron inspite of being made entirely of carbon fiber) and the gearbox can handle 600Nm, not far away from an X6M’s output of 680Nm.

Do you still think DCTs cant handle lots of torque?

However, Michael is also right, in that BMW was planning to take much higher DCT volumes, but cost pressures forced it to cut back on the plans – hence his suggestion that they might consider dropping it completely.

The reality is that DCTs will be a increasingly used technology in the future, with costs coming down as volumes and experience increase. But so too will the significantly improved autos that are being developed by companies like ZF.

Ultimately, it is the manual transmission which will lose out, because it has very little wriggle room left, in terms of efficiency.

Toothy

Never did I or any part of this post state that the DCT was flawed. It is a cost to performance ratio that makes it not worth it. There is a reason BMW DID NOT USE A DCT in the X5/X6 ///M cars. The ///M engineers on the project and and other ///M projects have some good reasons why the DCT was not used which we can not detail at length. These higher torque applications require a DCT with such a high per unit cost that the slight performance gains do not warrant it. There is also the issue of the DCT and KERS systems used at the same time, as it was explained to me.

You might also want to read my subsequent post on the IVT from Torotrak as well as subscribe to the Automotive news to further read their take on the DCT.

This DCT thing will happen; low torque motors will keep it, new cars will not receive it (this gen) and the high torque motors of the future will have a different option.

I do not appreciate personal attacks, they are unnecessary and contribute little value to the discussion, I happen to be very well educated and have a more advanced education than 99% of the population. I will leave it at that. I will not continue this but also don’t like censoring posts; future attacks will be. If you have a personal comment you would like to make or suggestion please do so via the contact link.

I have also experienced the 8HP in person and it can NOT skip to any gear as you stated, but that is for a different day- I don’t know maybe sometime next week.

I personally believe (or should that be KNOW) we’ll see many more DCT’s in the future, in all applications.

We shall see though… my source stated to not expect what you think.

-M

Clearly the DCT is not a forgotten technology for BMW, but rather a technology they will use selectively. I expect the next gen M3 to use a DCT, but we’ll see what ///M decides in due time!

Whatever they do with automatic transmission, let’s hope they can make them more reliable.

Although I do look forward to seeing what they come up with to replace it. My fear is that in the generation ahead automatic transmissions will be at the heart of many developments.

I am just reporting verified information from sources that are extremely reliable…. it is also worth noting the German manufacturer of these transmissions is not seeing a future market (and their stock dipped). There are other technologies that many are not aware of and we will discuss in the future, Low torque engines in ///M cars will be a thing of the past, and when we release the final specs of the BMW Performance Engine kit, you will see increased performance from the automatic edition secondary to its ability to handle more torque. BMW requires a buffer in all applications and the current lot of DCTs does not fit that criteria and those that do are not “worth” it on cost perspective.

The issue is the amount of torque these new motors will be putting out is too much for a DCT to handle reliably and the market is not large enough for economies of scale, so price point wise the performance gain is not worth it. From a manufacturers standpoint it makes sense, the consumer on the other hand maybe not.

By no means is this about the small DSG VW produces as that is something different FWD low torque etc…